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Date:	11/24/99 11:12:01 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 25 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1395<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Inetability of government failure<BR>
Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
Re: dampers and reactors<BR>
Re: GT Streamlining (was Re: Taikonauts!)<BR>
Re: X-Files scenarios in Trav (the d'Alemberts)<BR>
Re: 3D jump ranges - A solution<BR>
Re:Hail Ming! Hail Ming the Merciless!<BR>
Re: Ming the Merciless<BR>
Re: Where Does the Spinward Marches REALLY Begin?<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: X-Files scenarios in Trav (the d'Alemberts)<BR>
Re: Inetability of government failure<BR>
Re: GT Streamlining <BR>
Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
Re: adventure just waiting for the writing...<BR>
Re: X-Files scenarios in Trav (the d'Alemberts)<BR>
Skipping & ship cost & MTU solution<BR>
Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
Barbarella<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:46:34 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Inetability of government failure<BR>
<BR>
>Rob Pryor wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>I think that history shows that any government will fall, sooner or later.<BR>
><BR>
>I reply:<BR>
><BR>
><generalisation><BR>
>Actually in real life and in Traveller, governments do not have to fall. If a<BR>
>government fails to change however, then it is invetable to collapse.<BR>
></generalisation><BR>
><BR>
>Take the Catholic Church. It started as a fringe cult from Judea, then an<BR>
>underground movement, then a state religion, then a pan-state religion, then a<BR>
>state itself (while exercising power on a global scale), then to a<BR>
>non-dominant<BR>
>religious organisation.<BR>
<BR>
And admittedly a government of the Papal States.<BR>
<BR>
>England is another example. The Monarchy has managed to cope with all<BR>
>maners of<BR>
>problems, from open insurection to devoloution of power to parlement.<BR>
<BR>
I'd argue that the Monarchy as such is no longer a government.<BR>
<BR>
>There are still governments that still excist from antiquety (Tonga, Thialand,<BR>
>Mouri tribes). Yet well designed systems have collapsed (Communism was really<BR>
>well set up, just porly managed).<BR>
<BR>
The Mauri are comparitively recent.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Your best example is the Papacy, which has lasted about a millenium as a<BR>
government. We've had groups lasting loinger that eventually fell, so I<BR>
still predict that they will fall too. But there's no way to prove this<BR>
until it happens.<BR>
<BR>
(Note: I'm discussing governments in power, not organizations.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:52:04 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Slavery was Re: Ideological Warfare<BR>
<BR>
>In a message dated 11/22/99 1:20:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,<BR>
>tiamat@tsoft.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
><< They even gave the Jews an exemption from worshipping<BR>
> the Emperor once they understood that the Jews were monotheists who<BR>
> weren't going to bother other people. >><BR>
><BR>
>Not entirely true...Augustus was pretty reasonable, but the 79 ACE  revolt<BR>
>(which led to the Diaspora...) was caused by the Jews revolting when the<BR>
>Emperor insisted on them worshipping him as divine (which no Jew including<BR>
>myself would do...). Between this revolt and Bar Kochba's in 165, Judea was<BR>
>effectively depopulated. I for one, while a great admirer of Rome's<BR>
>accomplishments am glad they fell...<BR>
<BR>
Don't forget Palestine was a mess of fundamentalist nutters at the time,<BR>
doing all sorts of strange things. Think of the Brits in Northern Ireland:<BR>
no matter what you do, someone will complain (even going away will cause<BR>
complaints). No way to win that one.<BR>
<BR>
(FWIW, I'm a Christian, and yet I think there's a chance that the<BR>
historical Jesus may well have been a bandit/freedom fighter. No way to<BR>
prove it, barring some old records coming to light -- and if they did<BR>
there's a fair chance that they would be attacked pretty quickly, so even<BR>
that wouldn't settle things.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:57:27 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: dampers and reactors<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> What is the Star ships Operations guide and where do I get a copy?<BR>
><BR>
>"Starship Operator's Guide", actually.<BR>
><BR>
>It's a long out of print book from DGP. It was written for<BR>
>MegaTraveller. Since Roger Sanger holds the copyright, don't expect<BR>
>reprints or xerox copies of it anytime soon.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm. Years ago I got permission from the president of DGP to xerox<BR>
out-of-print work for friends, provided I did so at cost. Roger <spit><BR>
Sanger hasn't revoked that permission, so I would assume it's still valid.<BR>
<BR>
The question remains, though, if SOM is actually DGP's.  I know that it was<BR>
the only DGP writing that I got paid for, so everything else of mine that<BR>
they published is actually under _my_ copyright, not DGP's (because they<BR>
didn't fullfil their half of the contract - paying me - I don't have to<BR>
fullfil my half - transferring my copyright to them).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:12:40 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Streamlining (was Re: Taikonauts!)<BR>
<BR>
>One thing I have run straight head on into is streamlining. Many Imperial<BR>
>warships are streamlined, so as to scoop fuel from gas giants. However,<BR>
>streamlining in GT takes away a whopping 20% of the ships internal volume.<BR>
>At first I felt I understood the reasoning behind this (wasted space that<BR>
>is too small/awkwardly shaped to be used for anything else). However, the<BR>
>more I think about it, the less I am in agreement -- especially on larger<BR>
>ships.<BR>
<BR>
David Pulver (the designer of the GT starship design system) says that in<BR>
GT the USL hull is equivalent to a MegaTraveller Partly Streamlined hull.<BR>
In essence, it is not streamlined, but you can still travel at a reasonable<BR>
speed if you have contragrav. You have all the aerodynamic lift of a brick,<BR>
of course.<BR>
<BR>
Here are the conversions:<BR>
<BR>
GT	MT<BR>
SL	streamlined<BR>
USL	partly streamlined<BR>
PL*	unstreamlined<BR>
DS*	unstreamlined<BR>
<BR>
* Planetoid and dispersed-structure: coming in future GT books.<BR>
<BR>
GT: Starships will include a better explanation of this, as well as more<BR>
details on things like fuel scoops, jump grids, and the like. Chris Thrash<BR>
is writing it, and the draft is quite nice. Buy a Pyramid subscription to<BR>
be on the playtest team (when it hits playtest, which should be pretty<BR>
soon).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 23:46:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Micheal D. Peters" <Travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: X-Files scenarios in Trav (the d'Alemberts)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:05 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: X-Files scenarios in Trav (the d'Alemberts)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Mine are published as "Panther Science Fiction" by Granada Publishing<BR>
Limited,<BR>
> UK. They must be reprints, then.<BR>
><BR>
> So what's the copyright date on your originals, Mike?<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David,<BR>
<BR>
I should be able to answer you this weekend. These, along with about 50% of<BR>
my books are boxed and stored. However, I plan to dig them out this weekend,<BR>
this thread has sparked the desire to re-read them!<BR>
<BR>
As soon as I have them in hand I let you know the copyright date.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 23:55:24 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 3D jump ranges - A solution<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/24/99 6:10:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
jenry023@student.liu.se writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Jump rating   Jump range<BR>
>  ===========   ==========<BR>
>      J1            1<BR>
>      J2           *3 (1.44)<BR>
>      J3           *6 (1.82)<BR>
>      J4          *10 (2.15)<BR>
>      J5          *15 (2.47)<BR>
>      J6          *21 (2.76)<BR>
<BR>
<* chuckle *>.  You have just reproduced a table which almost ended up <BR>
in _First In_.  I think we decided to drop the idea because it affected the<BR>
Traveller flavor too much -- for one thing, it played hob with the economic<BR>
models in _Far Trader_.  But this notion might be worth exploring in<BR>
a home-grown Traveller game.<BR>
<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler<BR>
JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 23:03:41 -0600<BR>
From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
Subject: Re:Hail Ming! Hail Ming the Merciless!<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin writes:<BR>
>Your wish is my command:<BR>
<BR>
>Ming the Merciless<BR>
>Baron Ming of Mongo, Great Ruler of Mongo<BR>
<BR>
>Tax Collector, 5 terms; <snipped><BR>
<BR>
Tax Collector!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Anyone know a good job out there? I don't wanna prepare<BR>
taxes anymore. Especially if this is the guy I have to deal with<BR>
at audits!<BR>
<BR>
Do they have Penguin farmers?<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry (plop101) another quick and dirty post<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:50:18 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ming the Merciless<BR>
<BR>
Glenn and all:<BR>
<BR>
I can't believe one game sparked this.  What's next?  Come to the<BR>
December 18 meet and find out...<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 11/24/99 at 01:51 AM,  "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net> said:<BR>
> >You should know that, in my Traveller universe, Ming the Merciless<BR>
> >may properly be addressed as "Your Protuberance."<BR>
> <BR>
> Has a long nose, eh? <g><BR>
> <BR>
> We'll be doing stats for Barbarella before you know it.<BR>
> <BR>
> Eris<BR>
> --<BR>
> -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
> -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 23:50:50 -0600<BR>
From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Where Does the Spinward Marches REALLY Begin?<BR>
<BR>
Robert Eaglestone writes:<BR>
<snipped for and aft><BR>
>It concerns the potential difference between political<BR>
>and cultural boundaries, sort of.<BR>
<BR>
This is probably not what your thinking of, but I'm interested in<BR>
knowing the star systems which are at the furtherest boundries<BR>
of the 3I. From the stuff I have avail. to me, 3I's farthest<BR>
Spinward systems are either Emape or Raweh in the 5 sisters<BR>
subsector of the Spinward Marches (IMTU its Raweh, since<BR>
its farther from the core. This assuming that both systems are<BR>
moving in the same direction. One could argue Emape is the<BR>
farthest out, but that would take *way* to much gearheading<BR>
for me to worry about). Rimward we have Remulak and<BR>
Sarpedon in the Solomani Rim (again IMTU I give it to<BR>
Remulak). Of course, if the 3I still intends on reclaiming the<BR>
Solomani Sphere, then the systems would be *alot* more<BR>
Rimward. I don't have that much to go on for a farthest<BR>
3I galactic coreward or trailing system. Anyone with a<BR>
Atlas of the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry (plop101) future penguin farmer?<BR>
plop, [pl`ap] -n. def 2. penguin light ortillery platoon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:57:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         Hi, Seth.  No, I mean *helpless*.  If they have anything that'll<BR>
> shatter a starship, then they have something that will shatter a rock.<BR>
<BR>
Not if it's *bigger* than a starship. Consider that shells which will<BR>
turn a battleship into scrap barely chip a mountain.<BR>
<BR>
Also, *shattering* a rock in the "city killer" and up range can<BR>
actually make the damage inflicted *worse, because the smaller piece<BR>
"couple" the energy to the atmosphere and crust better. the bigger the<BR>
rock, the *less* you want it turned into a cloud of pieces.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:00:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: X-Files scenarios in Trav (the d'Alemberts)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Oh, by the way, I thought it was common knowledge that 'Doc' Smith was dead<BR>
> well before these books came out. Apparently Stephin Goldin gained<BR>
> permission (ither from 'Doc' Smith himself, or from his estate) to write<BR>
> several series based on never published notes (Similar to Jerry Pournelle's<BR>
> arrangement with H. Beam Piper, permission to write in the same universe and<BR>
> use characters from it. This was also the basis for the the follow up novels<BR>
> to the Lensman series, one was something like 'The Dragon Lensman'. These<BR>
> were to take the secondary, unattached Lensmen characters mentioned in the<BR>
> first books and follow their adventures.<BR>
<BR>
Not quite. There was an author given permission by Doc Smith shortly<BR>
before Doc died. His name was Ellern. The first story was "Moon<BR>
Prospector" and was not only published in Analog, but was the cover<BR>
story that month.  Ellern later wrote two more stories, one of which<BR>
was serialized in the back of the Ace Perry Rhodan books. And his<BR>
stufff was pretty good, it just hit the market at a bad time.<BR>
<BR>
*Much* later, Smith's *heirs* authorized those dreadful books you<BR>
mention above ("The Dragon Lensman", etc). Those were an unmitigated<BR>
disaster, because the writer didn't *have* a style, and didn't<BR>
understand basic premises of Doc's universe.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:16:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Inetability of government failure<BR>
<BR>
Robert prior scribbled from his office of scholarly<BR>
research:<BR>
> Your best example is the Papacy, which has lasted<BR>
> about a millenium as a<BR>
> government. We've had groups lasting loinger that<BR>
> eventually fell, so I<BR>
> still predict that they will fall too. But there's<BR>
> no way to prove this<BR>
> until it happens.<BR>
> <BR>
> (Note: I'm discussing governments in power, not<BR>
> organizations.)<BR>
<BR>
It also depends what you call a "government," that is,<BR>
what sort of events would make it no longer the same<BR>
government? I'm thinking particularly of the Roman<BR>
Empire, which began around 750 BCE, rose to its first<BR>
height of power by 280 BCE, had a second expansion<BR>
around 50 BCE - and then went from republic to<BR>
dictatorship (Julius Caesar). Was it the "same<BR>
government" after that? And from there it expanded and<BR>
contracted for a bit, took on Christianity... does<BR>
that officially make it a "different government"? A<BR>
hundred years after that, it was split into east<BR>
(Byzantium) and west. Does that count as a government<BR>
change? And then of course the west fell to barbarian<BR>
invasions, the east remaining, and shrinking, until<BR>
1453 when it fell to moslems... which is undoubtedly a<BR>
"change of government"... of course there were many<BR>
other steps along the way, but I'm just pointing out<BR>
the most obvious and well-known ones.<BR>
<BR>
Certainly I can imagine similar things happening in<BR>
the Imperium (forgive my ignorance of canon if they<BR>
actually have, or if I'm speaking blasphemy!) that is,<BR>
the empire becomes too large to govern, is split in<BR>
two or more pieces, one side falls to barbarians<BR>
(Vargr? Aslan? K'kree? some wild mixture of races?),<BR>
the other remains, culturally rich but militarily<BR>
(relatively) weak...<BR>
<BR>
Actually the T4 history I've seen seems to parallel a<BR>
later period: the collapse of the western Roman empire<BR>
(first imperium), the brief rise of Charlmagne, or<BR>
Theodoric (Rule of Man), then the Dark Ages (Long<BR>
Night), and finally the Renaissance (Third Imperium).<BR>
However religion has been removed....<BR>
<BR>
Not sure exactly what question I'm asking, but I'm<BR>
sure what I've said will spark some comments:)<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:21:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Streamlining <BR>
<BR>
> >One thing I have run straight head on into is<BR>
> streamlining. Many Imperial<BR>
> >warships are streamlined, so as to scoop fuel from<BR>
> gas giants. However,<BR>
> >streamlining in GT takes away a whopping 20% of the<BR>
> ships internal volume.<BR>
> >At first I felt I understood the reasoning behind<BR>
> this (wasted space that<BR>
> >is too small/awkwardly shaped to be used for<BR>
> anything else). However, the<BR>
> >more I think about it, the less I am in agreement<BR>
> -- especially on larger<BR>
> >ships.<BR>
<BR>
I always assumed the streamlining was, well, wings and<BR>
stuff. 20% of your volume is lost because 20% of your<BR>
weight is now wings and so on. When I see technical<BR>
data for a jet, they may give its weight as 25,000<BR>
lbs, but that's 25,000 lbs *including* the wings,<BR>
aeroliens (sp?) and such. It's assumed you're not<BR>
intersted in its wingless weight, since all that<BR>
weight, whatever it is, will be, um, "dead" weight."<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:16:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Timothy Collinson wrote:<BR>
>> >You Know You've Been Playing Too Much Traveller When:<BR>
>> Or you walk across some hexagonal paving stones and expect to take a<BR>
>> week getting from one to another.<BR>
><BR>
> But you might be able to move more than one step at a time... :-)<BR>
<BR>
I recall a time in the late 70s or eaerly 80s when a car dealership<BR>
vacated their building downtown. For a long time they couldn't find<BR>
anybody to rent it, and we joked about getting a bunch of gamers<BR>
together and renting it. <BR>
<BR>
You see, the first floor was almost entirely open, and tiled with 1"<BR>
white ceramic *hex* tiles. Yeah, a hex map about 200 feet square. <BR>
<BR>
Let's see. If I haven't dropped a decimal, that's 2400 hexes across. <BR>
<BR>
I can see it now, dozens of different games set up with the "maps"<BR>
roped off when not in use...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:06:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: adventure just waiting for the writing...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
>> <BR>
>> Well, I just did a crude calc for a famous SF vessel. I come up with a<BR>
>> *minimum* of over 500e15 (500 *quadrillion*) m^3. Or about 40<BR>
>> quadrillion dTons. And it was likely more than double that.<BR>
><BR>
> Haviland Tuf's _Ark_, perhaps?  (If not, I'll see what figures I can<BR>
> come up with for _Ark_.  Such a useful vessel....)<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Skylark of Valeron. We know for a fact it was built around a<BR>
"projector" with *thousand* km diameter "setting circles". And that<BR>
attacks that blast holes miles deep into it didn't affect the<BR>
projector. <BR>
<BR>
So in essence, it's a size "S" planet! Maybe a size 1. Tuf's Ark is a<BR>
*lot* smaller.<BR>
<BR>
There are even bigger ships. Check out Fritz Lieber's "the Wanderer".<BR>
It has *ships* the size of *Earth* battling it out entirelt too close<BR>
to Earth.<BR>
<BR>
And they were using PAWs scaled to fit!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:43:56 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: X-Files scenarios in Trav (the d'Alemberts)<BR>
<BR>
On 11/24/99 at 10:00 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>Not quite. There was an author given permission by Doc Smith shortly<BR>
>before Doc died. His name was Ellern. The first story was "Moon<BR>
>Prospector" and was not only published in Analog, but was the cover<BR>
>story that month.  <BR>
<BR>
Hey!  I've got that magazine...mid-60's, I think.  I could dig it<BR>
out of my 40 year collection of Astoundings and Analogs, but that<BR>
would be more effort than I want to put out.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:46:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Skipping & ship cost & MTU solution<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Hughes, Michael"<BR>
<Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> William Hostman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> IMTU, it's fairly simple: Banks won't finance J5 or<BR>
> J6 ships. Period. J4's<BR>
> will only be financed when there is a viable<BR>
> collateral OTHER THAN THE SHIP.... The banks tend to<BR>
send J-4 messages when<BR>
> a ship makes it's<BR>
> payments, to all payment acceptance stations within<BR>
> 2 months hard travel<BR>
> from point of payment. Most worlds maintain lists of<BR>
> ships in the area; if a<BR>
> ship is more than two months out by local<BR>
> computations, they prepare a skip<BR>
> alert... Not that they announce the ship has<BR>
> skipped, but that customs needs<BR>
> to check for papers (if the law level allows) or the<BR>
> bank hires a skip<BR>
> tracer to "take a look"; most (almost all) ship<BR>
> financing allows the banks'<BR>
> local agent to inspect or authorize inspection by<BR>
> their deputy as "part<BR>
> owner". If the agent finds proof of payment, fine,<BR>
> he's got to leave.<BR>
> Otherwise, including if the crew refuses access to<BR>
> the papers and/or ship<BR>
> after seeing appropriate credentials, the agent may<BR>
> reposess the ship "On<BR>
> suspicion". I only did this to a PC group once... it<BR>
> ended the campaign<BR>
> (They wound up confined to an imperial prison world,<BR>
> since the note holder<BR>
> was the Imperial Government, and the "Tracer" was an<BR>
> IMOJ field agent...<BR>
> whom they shot.)<BR>
> Since I use the "pirates" as skip tracers, it gives<BR>
> reason for banks to<BR>
> subsidize or even finance pirate vessels... field<BR>
> authorizations! And a<BR>
> letter or Marque and Reprisal, with clauses allowing<BR>
> inspection of records<BR>
> of vessels financed by a given bank, or government,<BR>
> and siezure if not able<BR>
> to prove current payments. That, and the pirates<BR>
> keeping tabs on skip<BR>
> reports.<BR>
Kyle replies:<BR>
Sounds all rather well-organised. I just can't imagine<BR>
it working that efficiently. To me, it seems rather<BR>
like a 15th century Florentine bank lending money for<BR>
a ship to do speculative trading in the East Indies...<BR>
"I'll be back, really I will!" Hmmm....<BR>
<BR>
> If a vessel has payments remaining, the vessel has<BR>
> to go to a Bank branch<BR>
> every payment date to get the running codes for the<BR>
> ship... [etc]<BR>
Again, I don't quite buy it. Codes are crackable. If<BR>
your PCs have among them an engineer, it's going to be<BR>
his first priority, I'd imagine. This is particularly<BR>
so if the ship is worth millions. Most crime is either<BR>
really petty (VCRs, TVs, marijuana), or really big<BR>
(insider trading). The PCs will want to skip payments,<BR>
temporarily or permanently, if it's a matter of a<BR>
thousand creds or less ("who cares about that<BR>
little?"), or a million creds or more ("think of what<BR>
else we could do with that money..."). <BR>
<BR>
I'm thinking here of the Cash Value to Hassle Ratio.<BR>
When this is high, the likelihood of crime is also.<BR>
<BR>
> There are some rogue independent worlds (such as<BR>
> Class A or B star ports<BR>
> with low pop and govt. but high tech far from<BR>
> interstellar states) that<BR>
> offer 'code' cracking or re-configure services, but<BR>
> these are likely to be<BR>
> very expensive and are highly illegal (look, an<BR>
> adventure!) <BR>
Again, what NPCs can do, PCs can do... though it may<BR>
take longer and be more expensive in buying computers,<BR>
etc...<BR>
<BR>
****Re: Solutions to dilemna****<BR>
IMTU, ships are heaps cheaper... but then, I was using<BR>
the TU before G:T came out, using GURPS rules, the old<BR>
GURPS: Space... with the spaceship construction rules<BR>
there. _Much_ cheaper than CT et al...<BR>
<BR>
I make available "engineer's dreams" (like the<BR>
"renovator's dream" in real estate) with the<BR>
occaisional unpleasant surprise.<BR>
<BR>
Further along this road, there may be those among you<BR>
who know of this beach in India, I forget its name,<BR>
where old unseaworthy ships get run aground. A whole<BR>
city has grown up around the scrap industry there. I<BR>
figure the same will happen in the future. Some ships<BR>
get dumped in space or suns, but some get landed on<BR>
this planet... A small desert world, almost mined out,<BR>
only a few desperados live there... and old ships get<BR>
dumped in a 100x100 km area... the local government<BR>
charges mainly by the ton.<BR>
<BR>
It's an adventure for the PCs, scrounging around. It's<BR>
great for starting groups, I tell them what's<BR>
available, and they tack together a spaceship out of<BR>
it all... not high-tech stuff, but the host planet<BR>
charges very little for it. In traditional GURPS rules<BR>
it was relatively easy, with advantages, for a party<BR>
to scrape up half a million or so, and they were able<BR>
to get a mediocre free trader out of this. A<BR>
"character ship" for them... starting off with no<BR>
staterooms, just blankets on the floor... Maybe<BR>
someone had a Contact or Ally in the local Imperial<BR>
Shipyards, so they were able to get a decent computer<BR>
(or they could stick with their TL6/7, two dozen<BR>
parallel-wired 286 type machines)... and so... thus,<BR>
ship construction becomes an adventure in itself, and<BR>
they get to learn about the ship construction system,<BR>
get explanations of what a meson gun is, and so on...<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:57:51 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: YKYBPTMTW:<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Timothy Collinson wrote:<BR>
> >> >You Know You've Been Playing Too Much Traveller When:<BR>
> >> Or you walk across some hexagonal paving stones and expect to take a<BR>
> >> week getting from one to another.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > But you might be able to move more than one step at a time... :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> I recall a time in the late 70s or eaerly 80s when a car dealership<BR>
> vacated their building downtown. For a long time they couldn't find<BR>
> anybody to rent it, and we joked about getting a bunch of gamers<BR>
> together and renting it.<BR>
> <BR>
> You see, the first floor was almost entirely open, and tiled with 1"<BR>
> white ceramic *hex* tiles. Yeah, a hex map about 200 feet square.<BR>
> <BR>
> Let's see. If I haven't dropped a decimal, that's 2400 hexes across.<BR>
<BR>
How much of the 3I (and surrounding polities) would fit on a map that<BR>
size?<BR>
<BR>
"Stomping the Sword Worlds" would take on a whole new meaning.... ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> I can see it now, dozens of different games set up with the "maps"<BR>
> roped off when not in use...<BR>
<BR>
Alternately, you could do World War II (using the _whole_ world!) at<BR>
battalion/regiment/brigade level (each hex would be about 10 miles<BR>
across at the equator).<BR>
<BR>
Naval actions could be fought at the destroyer-escort-and-up level....<BR>
<BR>
*drooling at the possibilities*<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 23:10:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Barbarella<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 12:35 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Ming the Merciless<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> We'll be doing stats for Barbarella before you know<BR>
it. <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Yes please :^)<BR>
<BR>
Kyle the Sleaze wrote:<BR>
I know them already: 36C-22-36<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1395<BR>
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